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The original castel
mvlk
post Jan 29 2018, 03:27 AM
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Deskundige
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Say Peper, i've been thinking about the drawings that are posted there. What bugs me is the combination of a round tower with a vaulted room. See, a vaulted room is not as strong as a room with a flat cealing. And a round tower is a outward defence tower, so it would get shocks of catapults etc -- so why a vaulted room connected to it? square tours are used for gates and inner defense towers, and did have vaulted passages and entire rooms between them that would often be covered by soil and grass. What also bothers me is the exact point where the 'roundway' around the chateau is nowadays - it seems to be at about the right level at the start, to mount to the highest level near the tour madeleine -- as if the entrance where there. Same 'inside' the walls: why this big steep hill from the other church on to the tour madelene - as if the castle was not where it stands now, nor was the wall where it is now. The castle would have been on the highest point - being near the parking and the tour madelene, where the last gate was that opened the road to both the village and the castrum.
The old foot path up is still there, and it not at all where the current road is. It ends at the point where the first houses where (now 'les jardins'), from where it seems to be following the 'path between outer and inner wall'. That way, a vaulted room would make sense: it is in the inner castrum, with an old round defense tower that could be round for it is the inner defense tower (defense = round or D shape, living = square).
There are constructions outside of the wall on both sides (ruins, but clear enough) that are way to big for houses. So i take they were the old external and internal gates. If i am correct, the escape routes would be even deeper, but also a connection between the two gates would be very deep in the rocks.
I made a plan, for this text is not very clear without one :-)
I went to south England. There i visited a castle that had such a 'room' but they did not know it's use.
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mvlk
post Jan 29 2018, 03:58 AM
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on the two 'courtyards': the inner courtyard was for private entertainment purposes, where the outer courtyard was for offical instances like judgements, rulings, new laws, marriages, ... there would be a door to the village side that was strongly garded at all times. Hans, could the vaulted room be something like that, or had in only one door? I can imagine you would like an inner room in the pyrenee for these kind of things in winter.
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Hans Peper
post Jan 29 2018, 09:56 AM
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The vaulted room is from the 13th century and the round tower is from the 16th century. So the round tower is about 300 years younger than the vaulted room.

I think that the vaultet room is the rest of the city wall from the 13th century.

regards Hans
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Hans Peper
post Jan 29 2018, 09:56 AM
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.
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mvlk
post Jan 31 2018, 01:02 AM
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did the room have more than 1 entrance?
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mvlk
post Jan 31 2018, 01:54 AM
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according to the legend told here, large parts of rennes were destroyed in 1362, including the church st pierre, but not the mansion. To be fair, a mension (manoir seigneurial) is often the sole stone building at those times in a village, apart from the church/chapel.
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Rolling.Bill
post Jan 31 2018, 02:59 AM
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@MVLK, As far as I know, up to today a small section of wall has remained of the St-Pierre, close to the water well at the end of the Rue St-Pierre. This church was, as the crow flies, not more than some 50 meters away from the St-Madeleine which was then the castle chapel and therefore within the castle enclosure. Some believe (partially proven right by actual research) that underground connections existed between the St-Pierre and the castle, and therefore also to the crypt of the St-Madeleine.

Therefore I think it is not so strange that the Abbé Bigou connects the two in his writings.
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mvlk
post Feb 1 2018, 10:23 PM
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Thing is, what now is the left wall of the castel, could have been the right wall of the manoir. In that case, church, cimétière, domaine and the gardens could well have been the original castle grounds, with the gardins on the spot where now the castel is. The more the original parts of the manoir wall could be reconstructed, the better understandable it would become to see where the connections underground go and why they do so. It might also indicate why the gardins have the form they have.
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Rolling.Bill
post Feb 1 2018, 11:50 PM
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@MVLK, The layout of the gardens is in fact devised by Sauniere. They were intended to "mirror" the church. See also the works by Alain Féral. Magdala and the glass conservatory/orangerie are also intentionally placed as black and white opposites. Just like Jesus and Asmodeus in the church.

As the foundations of the church are much older than 13 th century they may indeed have been part of the original castle layout.
Part of the passages beneath RLC are natural, partly enhanced for human use and partly artificially made.

Every castle had a few escape routes and often access to an underground well.

Connections between the old water well at rue st pierre and both the castle and church are suggested and partly investigated with a camera. However after some 10 meters or so a blockade was encountered which the camera could not pass although there was some water flowing.

Best Regards, Willem
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